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	<title>Comments on: How many US public libraries have actually closed?</title>
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	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2011/11/how-many-us-public-libraries-have-actually-closed/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2011/11/how-many-us-public-libraries-have-actually-closed/comment-page-1/#comment-73245</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=3440#comment-73245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Michael,

Yours probably wouldn&#039;t get trapped because you&#039;ve commented here before. 

My understanding (possibly wrong) is that &quot;library outlets&quot; covers branches as well, and should be around 16,000; that&#039;s a different question. 

I&#039;m pleased to see some feedback. I&#039;m just guessing that there&#039;s no real answer available, but we&#039;ll see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michael,</p>
<p>Yours probably wouldn&#8217;t get trapped because you&#8217;ve commented here before. </p>
<p>My understanding (possibly wrong) is that &#8220;library outlets&#8221; covers branches as well, and should be around 16,000; that&#8217;s a different question. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m pleased to see some feedback. I&#8217;m just guessing that there&#8217;s no real answer available, but we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Golrick</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2011/11/how-many-us-public-libraries-have-actually-closed/comment-page-1/#comment-73244</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Golrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=3440#comment-73244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I, too, have some knowledge from serving as the State Data Coordinator. 

First, let me note that &quot;library outlets&quot; is the term used by IMLS (and the Census Bureau who actually does the data collection) to represent locations where library service is provided. This is distinct from &quot;administrative entities&quot; which represent &quot;public libraries&quot; or &quot;public library systems&quot; which may have one or more outlets, and whose administrative functions are located either in an &quot;outlet&quot; or in a separate physical location. [You might be surprised at how many of the latter exist, where the administration is located separately from any actually library services.]

The problem is in how libraries report closures even to the state. There is a part of the data collection process which includes identifying changes in outlets, referred to in the &quot;handbook&quot; as &lt;b&gt;Outlet Structure Changes&lt;/b&gt;. There is currently a code (and I think it is new for the 2010 data collection) for temporary closures (expected to be less than a year). Some of that information is available on the IMLS web site. Look under Research, and look for the &quot;Full User Manual.&quot; [After the comment above, I am loathe to put in a link. email me if you have trouble finding it, or want to discuss it further.]

I am not clear about how much of that data comes through in the full data set, but I can certainly refer you to someone at IMLS who can tell you more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, have some knowledge from serving as the State Data Coordinator. </p>
<p>First, let me note that &#8220;library outlets&#8221; is the term used by IMLS (and the Census Bureau who actually does the data collection) to represent locations where library service is provided. This is distinct from &#8220;administrative entities&#8221; which represent &#8220;public libraries&#8221; or &#8220;public library systems&#8221; which may have one or more outlets, and whose administrative functions are located either in an &#8220;outlet&#8221; or in a separate physical location. [You might be surprised at how many of the latter exist, where the administration is located separately from any actually library services.]</p>
<p>The problem is in how libraries report closures even to the state. There is a part of the data collection process which includes identifying changes in outlets, referred to in the &#8220;handbook&#8221; as <b>Outlet Structure Changes</b>. There is currently a code (and I think it is new for the 2010 data collection) for temporary closures (expected to be less than a year). Some of that information is available on the IMLS web site. Look under Research, and look for the &#8220;Full User Manual.&#8221; [After the comment above, I am loathe to put in a link. email me if you have trouble finding it, or want to discuss it further.]</p>
<p>I am not clear about how much of that data comes through in the full data set, but I can certainly refer you to someone at IMLS who can tell you more.</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2011/11/how-many-us-public-libraries-have-actually-closed/comment-page-1/#comment-73230</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=3440#comment-73230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve: Thanks for that (which I had to rescue from spam, probably because there&#039;s a link and you haven&#039;t previously commented here). 

I&#039;d be happy with year-old or two-year-old numbers, if they were more clearly defined--and if they really meant final closures, not temporary shutdowns. Maybe those numbers aren&#039;t feasible. So far, in looking at 6,000 of the 9,000-odd libraries (with about 350 left to go), I&#039;ve seen precisely &lt;b&gt;one&lt;/b&gt; case of a declared final shutdown--but I suppose libraries that are closed are less likely to have ghost websites.

I wouldn&#039;t ever, ever suggest that the lack of clean numbers has anything to do with making library closures look like &lt;b&gt;more&lt;/b&gt; of an issue than they really are (after all, a closure is much more dramatic than the slow loss of revenue), but...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve: Thanks for that (which I had to rescue from spam, probably because there&#8217;s a link and you haven&#8217;t previously commented here). </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be happy with year-old or two-year-old numbers, if they were more clearly defined&#8211;and if they really meant final closures, not temporary shutdowns. Maybe those numbers aren&#8217;t feasible. So far, in looking at 6,000 of the 9,000-odd libraries (with about 350 left to go), I&#8217;ve seen precisely <b>one</b> case of a declared final shutdown&#8211;but I suppose libraries that are closed are less likely to have ghost websites.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t ever, ever suggest that the lack of clean numbers has anything to do with making library closures look like <b>more</b> of an issue than they really are (after all, a closure is much more dramatic than the slow loss of revenue), but&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2011/11/how-many-us-public-libraries-have-actually-closed/comment-page-1/#comment-73227</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=3440#comment-73227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good questions. I tried to address this issue last March (&lt;a href=&quot;http://21stcenturylibrary.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/library-closure-numbers-are-not-too-bad/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Library Closure Numbers Not Too Bad&lt;/a&gt;), but found the same issues - no current numbers.  Being at a state library, I understand the annual reporting system, but still, it seems that something this important should have more in-depth and current data attention. What I was able to guesstimate was 0.4% fewer libraries since 2005.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good questions. I tried to address this issue last March (<a href="http://21stcenturylibrary.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/library-closure-numbers-are-not-too-bad/" rel="nofollow">Library Closure Numbers Not Too Bad</a>), but found the same issues &#8211; no current numbers.  Being at a state library, I understand the annual reporting system, but still, it seems that something this important should have more in-depth and current data attention. What I was able to guesstimate was 0.4% fewer libraries since 2005.</p>
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