<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: I wish I&#8217;d said that</title>
	<atom:link href="http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 20:18:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33273</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess the question there would be whether an encyclopedia should be the place to go for the source material--and whether, if it is, Wikipedia&#039;s other policies are serving history well.

I&#039;m not a historian (although some of my other writing starts to resemble history), but remembering a series of civil war lectures by the new breed of historians (returning to source data), I&#039; d say &quot;no&quot; on both counts. To serve as a repository for source data, Wikipedia would have to abandon the &quot;notability rule&quot; altogether--after all, for new civil war history work, the historians are looking at the letters and journals of the &quot;everyday&quot; people involved in the war, not just the Notable Figures.

But that&#039;s already saying more than I really know. As a reader, I want narrative. As a sometimes-investigator and frequent writer, I want both narrative and access to source material.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the question there would be whether an encyclopedia should be the place to go for the source material&#8211;and whether, if it is, Wikipedia&#8217;s other policies are serving history well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a historian (although some of my other writing starts to resemble history), but remembering a series of civil war lectures by the new breed of historians (returning to source data), I&#8217; d say &#8220;no&#8221; on both counts. To serve as a repository for source data, Wikipedia would have to abandon the &#8220;notability rule&#8221; altogether&#8211;after all, for new civil war history work, the historians are looking at the letters and journals of the &#8220;everyday&#8221; people involved in the war, not just the Notable Figures.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s already saying more than I really know. As a reader, I want narrative. As a sometimes-investigator and frequent writer, I want both narrative and access to source material.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33270</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I mostly agree with you on the narrative coherence. Coherence of any kindâ€”narrative, stylistic or analyticalâ€”are un-Wikipedia-esque virtues.

That said, as a historian of sorts, I am suspicious of narrative. I like to see the &lt;i&gt;bones&lt;/i&gt; of history. For something like Alexander, narrative too often smoothes over difficulties of sources or interpretation, so to the extent that Wikipedia&#039;s fragmented production can voice these issues, I cheer it. 

On balance, however, I think the loss is greater than the gain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mostly agree with you on the narrative coherence. Coherence of any kindâ€”narrative, stylistic or analyticalâ€”are un-Wikipedia-esque virtues.</p>
<p>That said, as a historian of sorts, I am suspicious of narrative. I like to see the <i>bones</i> of history. For something like Alexander, narrative too often smoothes over difficulties of sources or interpretation, so to the extent that Wikipedia&#8217;s fragmented production can voice these issues, I cheer it. </p>
<p>On balance, however, I think the loss is greater than the gain.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Iris</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33240</link>
		<dc:creator>Iris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d agree that this is, as you say, a situation. A few years ago it was a problem and everyone spent long hours trying to figure out what they could do about it. Now it&#039;s a situation, and so we&#039;re shifting toward figuring out how to get the most out of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree that this is, as you say, a situation. A few years ago it was a problem and everyone spent long hours trying to figure out what they could do about it. Now it&#8217;s a situation, and so we&#8217;re shifting toward figuring out how to get the most out of it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33239</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If that&#039;s the goal, I don&#039;t disagree--but seems to me the Wikipedians are selling it as The Ultimate Encyclopedia, and that a great many people use it as an end in itself.

This, I suspect, is a situation, not a problem (that is: problems have solutions; situations don&#039;t). And it&#039;s certainly the case that many of those who set about shouting down Citizendium before it really even began did so on the basis that Wikipedia is all we need, and nothing can compete with it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that&#8217;s the goal, I don&#8217;t disagree&#8211;but seems to me the Wikipedians are selling it as The Ultimate Encyclopedia, and that a great many people use it as an end in itself.</p>
<p>This, I suspect, is a situation, not a problem (that is: problems have solutions; situations don&#8217;t). And it&#8217;s certainly the case that many of those who set about shouting down Citizendium before it really even began did so on the basis that Wikipedia is all we need, and nothing can compete with it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Iris</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33237</link>
		<dc:creator>Iris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been thinking about this because, while I mostly agree with you, I think I would be rather horrified if Wikipedia did a &quot;better&quot; job of having Encyclopedia-like essays rather than the sting of facts that it currently has. Here&#039;s why I say that. 

Wikipedia has many potential shortcomings, and these potential shortcomings become more worrisome if people go to Wikipedia to Learn What They Need To Know rather than going there to get an overview of a topic and a list of sources or links.  It&#039;s this list of sources that I find to be the true value of Wikipedia. In effect, they&#039;ve become the directory equivalent of Google (rather like Yahoo was at one point, and to some extent still is). I know that my students will go to Wikipedia, and I can&#039;t tell them not to. But what I can do is teach them to use it as a jumping-off place to find more authoritative sources simply by following the links in Wikipedia. And that&#039;s how I use it, myself. 

As you say, the factoid writing style is probably a necessary companion to multi-author articles having no editorial oversight. But if the goal is to become a Directory With Context, this style doesn&#039;t actually bother me and, in fact, helps to reduce emphasis on the tool as an end in itself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about this because, while I mostly agree with you, I think I would be rather horrified if Wikipedia did a &#8220;better&#8221; job of having Encyclopedia-like essays rather than the sting of facts that it currently has. Here&#8217;s why I say that. </p>
<p>Wikipedia has many potential shortcomings, and these potential shortcomings become more worrisome if people go to Wikipedia to Learn What They Need To Know rather than going there to get an overview of a topic and a list of sources or links.  It&#8217;s this list of sources that I find to be the true value of Wikipedia. In effect, they&#8217;ve become the directory equivalent of Google (rather like Yahoo was at one point, and to some extent still is). I know that my students will go to Wikipedia, and I can&#8217;t tell them not to. But what I can do is teach them to use it as a jumping-off place to find more authoritative sources simply by following the links in Wikipedia. And that&#8217;s how I use it, myself. </p>
<p>As you say, the factoid writing style is probably a necessary companion to multi-author articles having no editorial oversight. But if the goal is to become a Directory With Context, this style doesn&#8217;t actually bother me and, in fact, helps to reduce emphasis on the tool as an end in itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33233</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, yes. For pop culture, technotrivia, and lots of stuff like that, the only way to beat Wikipedia might be one of the specialized wikis that goes into even more detail. And the Wikipedia approach does add a certain, um, tang to the trivia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes. For pop culture, technotrivia, and lots of stuff like that, the only way to beat Wikipedia might be one of the specialized wikis that goes into even more detail. And the Wikipedia approach does add a certain, um, tang to the trivia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2008/07/i-wish-id-said-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33230</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=818#comment-33230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What you say is true enough, but I enjoy the opposite effect that sometimes occurs: when there is a Wikipedia entry on something that no &quot;real&quot; encyclopedia would cover, but it has that semi-anonymous, blandly competent tone. Like the article on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chewbacca Defense&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you say is true enough, but I enjoy the opposite effect that sometimes occurs: when there is a Wikipedia entry on something that no &#8220;real&#8221; encyclopedia would cover, but it has that semi-anonymous, blandly competent tone. Like the article on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense" rel="nofollow">Chewbacca Defense</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
