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	<title>Comments on: How vital is an ISBN? A lazyweb question</title>
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	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-26321</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-26321</guid>
		<description>Sarah,

I haven&#039;t actually signed up to publish yet (but will soon). If you want an ISBN, Lulu charges $99 for a Lulu ISBN (and inclusion in Ingram&#039;s wholesale system, thus potentially Amazon, B&amp;N, etc.) or $125 for your own ISBN (and inclusion in Ingram etc.)--BUT the retail price, including the Lulu direct-order price, MUST be twice the wholesale price, and the wholesale price is what you&#039;ll earn royalties on (80% of what&#039;s left over after production costs).

Last time I checked, there are no upfront costs if you don&#039;t use an ISBN--just production costs (for paperback b&amp;w, typically $4.50 plus two cents per page) and 20% of the difference between that cost and the price you set.

I don&#039;t believe Lulu offers inclusion in Google Book Search, but haven&#039;t looked into that.

If/when I complete this process, I&#039;ll write up some of it, either here or in Cites &amp; Insights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah,</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t actually signed up to publish yet (but will soon). If you want an ISBN, Lulu charges $99 for a Lulu ISBN (and inclusion in Ingram&#8217;s wholesale system, thus potentially Amazon, B&#038;N, etc.) or $125 for your own ISBN (and inclusion in Ingram etc.)&#8211;BUT the retail price, including the Lulu direct-order price, MUST be twice the wholesale price, and the wholesale price is what you&#8217;ll earn royalties on (80% of what&#8217;s left over after production costs).</p>
<p>Last time I checked, there are no upfront costs if you don&#8217;t use an ISBN&#8211;just production costs (for paperback b&#038;w, typically $4.50 plus two cents per page) and 20% of the difference between that cost and the price you set.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe Lulu offers inclusion in Google Book Search, but haven&#8217;t looked into that.</p>
<p>If/when I complete this process, I&#8217;ll write up some of it, either here or in Cites &#038; Insights.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Miller</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-26306</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-26306</guid>
		<description>Hi.  I am trying to decide whether to get an ISBN and put my book in Google&#039;s book program.  I have no idea if I will sell even one copy, and I don&#039;t have $125.00 to throw away on an ISBN.  I have never tried Lulu, but will look into it.  What is the cost there?  Your information has been helpful.  Thanks very much.  Sarah Miller</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi.  I am trying to decide whether to get an ISBN and put my book in Google&#8217;s book program.  I have no idea if I will sell even one copy, and I don&#8217;t have $125.00 to throw away on an ISBN.  I have never tried Lulu, but will look into it.  What is the cost there?  Your information has been helpful.  Thanks very much.  Sarah Miller</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-25594</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-25594</guid>
		<description>Laura and Mary, Thanks.

I&#039;ve pretty well decided: No ISBN, at least for now.

My situation&#039;s odd (isn&#039;t everybody&#039;s?): I have a solid traditional publishing record (13 books in the library field). My primary audience--librarians--by and large know who I am, so &quot;scam&quot; probably isn&#039;t much of an issue. The books I plan to do on Lulu are books that don&#039;t fit my library publisher&#039;s model (where 1,200 copies in the first two years are needed, unless the price is set higher than I&#039;d like)--the publisher knows this, and knows I&#039;ll go to them when I have a project where the regular editing/publishing delay and anticipated sales make sense.

Actually, as I&#039;ve been looking at comparable books in librarianship over the last few weeks, I could readily justify a $29 price (that seems to be most common for 200p. trade paperbacks), but I&#039;d rather come in lower, if only to make up for Lulu&#039;s shipping charges.

The only real purpose of an ISBN is to ease acquisitions for libraries, rather than librarians.  At this point, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura and Mary, Thanks.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve pretty well decided: No ISBN, at least for now.</p>
<p>My situation&#8217;s odd (isn&#8217;t everybody&#8217;s?): I have a solid traditional publishing record (13 books in the library field). My primary audience&#8211;librarians&#8211;by and large know who I am, so &#8220;scam&#8221; probably isn&#8217;t much of an issue. The books I plan to do on Lulu are books that don&#8217;t fit my library publisher&#8217;s model (where 1,200 copies in the first two years are needed, unless the price is set higher than I&#8217;d like)&#8211;the publisher knows this, and knows I&#8217;ll go to them when I have a project where the regular editing/publishing delay and anticipated sales make sense.</p>
<p>Actually, as I&#8217;ve been looking at comparable books in librarianship over the last few weeks, I could readily justify a $29 price (that seems to be most common for 200p. trade paperbacks), but I&#8217;d rather come in lower, if only to make up for Lulu&#8217;s shipping charges.</p>
<p>The only real purpose of an ISBN is to ease acquisitions for libraries, rather than librarians.  At this point, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Gibbs</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-25591</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Gibbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-25591</guid>
		<description>I have published two books with Lulu, both with a very specialized audience: Latin teachers and students. One book is 4000 Latin proverbs organized grammatically, and the other is just for fun - a set of Roman numeral Sudoku puzzles. :-)

My experience with Lulu has been excellent. I really appreciate the quality of the books and the very nice Lulu website. 

My main way of marketing the books is through my own blogs and websites, and I&#039;ve sold a couple hundred copies so far over a six month period. That is very exciting for me! 

The books are affordable this way, and I cringe, positively CRINGE, at the steep price that I would have to charge for the books if they were distributed through Amazon et al. I originally planned to offer them through Amazon, too - but that was before I learned about the whole Amazon/Ingram pricing structure.

Perhaps some day I will do a version of the books with an ISBN, but for right now this is a great solution for me. I am learning more about my audience and their needs, and if/when I do another edition of the books with ISBN I hope to make changes to the books to make them more useful. 

If I didn&#039;t have blogs and a website to market the books, I might feel frustrated, but for right now, my hope and challenge is to keep developing useful online materials, as companion materials to the books ... and the Lulu book sales are a nice little barometer to let me know how I&#039;m doing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have published two books with Lulu, both with a very specialized audience: Latin teachers and students. One book is 4000 Latin proverbs organized grammatically, and the other is just for fun &#8211; a set of Roman numeral Sudoku puzzles. <img src='http://walt.lishost.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My experience with Lulu has been excellent. I really appreciate the quality of the books and the very nice Lulu website. </p>
<p>My main way of marketing the books is through my own blogs and websites, and I&#8217;ve sold a couple hundred copies so far over a six month period. That is very exciting for me! </p>
<p>The books are affordable this way, and I cringe, positively CRINGE, at the steep price that I would have to charge for the books if they were distributed through Amazon et al. I originally planned to offer them through Amazon, too &#8211; but that was before I learned about the whole Amazon/Ingram pricing structure.</p>
<p>Perhaps some day I will do a version of the books with an ISBN, but for right now this is a great solution for me. I am learning more about my audience and their needs, and if/when I do another edition of the books with ISBN I hope to make changes to the books to make them more useful. </p>
<p>If I didn&#8217;t have blogs and a website to market the books, I might feel frustrated, but for right now, my hope and challenge is to keep developing useful online materials, as companion materials to the books &#8230; and the Lulu book sales are a nice little barometer to let me know how I&#8217;m doing!</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-25357</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-25357</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ll have the glossy cover with the pretty picture--I&#039;m definitely doing a standard trade paperback. The &quot;general public&quot; isn&#039;t going to be buying this book, and it won&#039;t show up in bookstores. I&#039;m more concerned with libraries unable to buy it if there&#039;s no ISBN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ll have the glossy cover with the pretty picture&#8211;I&#8217;m definitely doing a standard trade paperback. The &#8220;general public&#8221; isn&#8217;t going to be buying this book, and it won&#8217;t show up in bookstores. I&#8217;m more concerned with libraries unable to buy it if there&#8217;s no ISBN.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Scriver</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-25355</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Scriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-25355</guid>
		<description>Walt,

My experience with Lulu.com so far is new and inexperienced, but then -- that&#039;s what they are, too!  For instance, they&#039;ve just changed their pricing policies, responding in part to customer confusion and in part to actual law in the EU countries.  This is a bit of a worry to me -- that their present good policies will evolve towards big business and lose little guy advantages.

I&#039;ve only paid for an ISBN for one of my books, &quot;Twelve Blackfeet Stories,&quot; even though it was already on Google thanks to my blog.  I think it was the right thing to do, partly because Amazon is still the king of the jungle and partly because Lulu.com posted Google entries that were in Japanese and German where I know there are people interested in Blackfeet content.  This means listing in Ingrams, which works, and Barnes &amp; Noble, which is another massive seller.  I cannot sell my &quot;homemade&quot; wirebound books at B&amp;N unless I&#039;ve gotten ISBNs for the books, partly because their stock is handled via barcode guns -- no barcode means hand entry, which is a drag for them.  They might refuse to do it.

Two other books I have at Lulu (see prairiem or Mary Scriver to find my &quot;marketplace&quot;) are probably not of general interest.  One is a family history (&quot;Strachans on the Prairie&quot;) and one is a novel written by the 7th Grade class in Heart Butte, Montana, on the Blackfeet reservation.  People are not likely to buy them except through me or possibly by Googling.

Shipping is a killer.  I&#039;ve remarked several times that if I had money to invest, I&#039;d put it in UPS, not publishing.

The &quot;initiated&quot; are not afraid of POD or Lulu or any other of the amazing techno print advances, but I&#039;m finding that the general public is wary and unreassured.  They smell scams unless everything goes along as usual.  Therefore, they like ISBN.  But then, they like glossy and pretty pictures on the front, too.

Prairie Mary
(Mary Scriver)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt,</p>
<p>My experience with Lulu.com so far is new and inexperienced, but then &#8212; that&#8217;s what they are, too!  For instance, they&#8217;ve just changed their pricing policies, responding in part to customer confusion and in part to actual law in the EU countries.  This is a bit of a worry to me &#8212; that their present good policies will evolve towards big business and lose little guy advantages.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve only paid for an ISBN for one of my books, &#8220;Twelve Blackfeet Stories,&#8221; even though it was already on Google thanks to my blog.  I think it was the right thing to do, partly because Amazon is still the king of the jungle and partly because Lulu.com posted Google entries that were in Japanese and German where I know there are people interested in Blackfeet content.  This means listing in Ingrams, which works, and Barnes &amp; Noble, which is another massive seller.  I cannot sell my &#8220;homemade&#8221; wirebound books at B&amp;N unless I&#8217;ve gotten ISBNs for the books, partly because their stock is handled via barcode guns &#8212; no barcode means hand entry, which is a drag for them.  They might refuse to do it.</p>
<p>Two other books I have at Lulu (see prairiem or Mary Scriver to find my &#8220;marketplace&#8221;) are probably not of general interest.  One is a family history (&#8220;Strachans on the Prairie&#8221;) and one is a novel written by the 7th Grade class in Heart Butte, Montana, on the Blackfeet reservation.  People are not likely to buy them except through me or possibly by Googling.</p>
<p>Shipping is a killer.  I&#8217;ve remarked several times that if I had money to invest, I&#8217;d put it in UPS, not publishing.</p>
<p>The &#8220;initiated&#8221; are not afraid of POD or Lulu or any other of the amazing techno print advances, but I&#8217;m finding that the general public is wary and unreassured.  They smell scams unless everything goes along as usual.  Therefore, they like ISBN.  But then, they like glossy and pretty pictures on the front, too.</p>
<p>Prairie Mary<br />
(Mary Scriver)</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-25343</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 15:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-25343</guid>
		<description>John, Thanks. As to book quality, the first thing I did was to buy a Lulu book (one I&#039;d thought about buying anyway) to check on quality. At least for the book I got, it really was high trade-paper quality, with &quot;book paper&quot; that&#039;s nicer than many professional publishers (that is, it&#039;s a slightly textured cream rather than flat white); I assumed print quality wouldn&#039;t be an issue, and it wasn&#039;t.

Whew. Cheapest U.S. shipping was $2.45 for a 290-page paperback via USPS (media mail). I&#039;m surprised it&#039;s that much more for Canada. The 18 days sounds about right, though (I think my purchase took about the same)--one negative consequence of publish-on-demand: There&#039;s no stock to ship from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, Thanks. As to book quality, the first thing I did was to buy a Lulu book (one I&#8217;d thought about buying anyway) to check on quality. At least for the book I got, it really was high trade-paper quality, with &#8220;book paper&#8221; that&#8217;s nicer than many professional publishers (that is, it&#8217;s a slightly textured cream rather than flat white); I assumed print quality wouldn&#8217;t be an issue, and it wasn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Whew. Cheapest U.S. shipping was $2.45 for a 290-page paperback via USPS (media mail). I&#8217;m surprised it&#8217;s that much more for Canada. The 18 days sounds about right, though (I think my purchase took about the same)&#8211;one negative consequence of publish-on-demand: There&#8217;s no stock to ship from.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dupuis</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2007/02/how-vital-is-an-isbn-a-lazyweb-question/comment-page-1/#comment-25339</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dupuis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 14:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=476#comment-25339</guid>
		<description>Hi Walt, I recently bought a book from Lulu.  It doesn&#039;t have an isbn and frankly I didn&#039;t realize it didn&#039;t have one until I looked just now.  I do plan on ordering a copy for my library and that&#039;s where I&#039;m somewhat concerned that the lack of isbn and mainstream ordering venues will confuse the mono ordering department.  On the other hand, they&#039;ve gotten stuff from weird places before so they should be able to figure it out.

BTW, the book looks great and is generally indistinguishable from a &lt;i&gt;normal&lt;/i&gt; book.  Shipping to Canada was expensive, almost $10 for the cheapest option and it took 18 days to get here from the day I ordered it.

The book is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lulu.com/content/631016&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Open Laboratory: The Best Writing on Science Blogs 2006&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Walt, I recently bought a book from Lulu.  It doesn&#8217;t have an isbn and frankly I didn&#8217;t realize it didn&#8217;t have one until I looked just now.  I do plan on ordering a copy for my library and that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m somewhat concerned that the lack of isbn and mainstream ordering venues will confuse the mono ordering department.  On the other hand, they&#8217;ve gotten stuff from weird places before so they should be able to figure it out.</p>
<p>BTW, the book looks great and is generally indistinguishable from a <i>normal</i> book.  Shipping to Canada was expensive, almost $10 for the cheapest option and it took 18 days to get here from the day I ordered it.</p>
<p>The book is <a href="http://www.lulu.com/content/631016" rel="nofollow">The Open Laboratory: The Best Writing on Science Blogs 2006</a>.</p>
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