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	<title>Comments on: This shears manifest themselves in uncounted PowerPoint foils</title>
	<atom:link href="http://walt.lishost.org/2006/10/this-shears-manifest-themselves-in-uncounted-powerpoint-foils/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/10/this-shears-manifest-themselves-in-uncounted-powerpoint-foils/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/10/this-shears-manifest-themselves-in-uncounted-powerpoint-foils/comment-page-1/#comment-21933</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=395#comment-21933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter--and I appreciate the link. In this case, the translation&#039;s good enough to understand what he&#039;s saying, although I think we lose much of the power and eloquence of the original.

But also in this case, the sheer charm of some of the less-than-wholly-satisfactory translations was such that I did the post. I hope it&#039;s clear to the original author (if he sees this) that I&#039;m not denigrating what appears to be an excellent rebuttal.

I wonder whether we&#039;ll see truly satisfactory machine translation within my lifetime. (That&#039;s &quot;wonder,&quot; not &quot;don&#039;t believe.&quot;) There are two fundamental problems--one of which may be a bit less severe for scholarly resources:

1. Different languages have such different constructions that effective translation can be difficult. (In the example cited, at least one marvelous result is, I believe, a case where typical German sentence order results in a different effect in English.)

2. (&quot;Why a roundtrip translation for Cites &amp; Insights or Walt at Random material might be particularly gruesome.&quot;) Idiomatic language is, I suspect, much harder to translate effectively, as is colloquial language. I love good idiomatic American, and try to use it, but it can&#039;t be easy to translate, and I&#039;m sure the same is true for other languages. 

The one tendency of Google&#039;s translate that I found bemusing, rather than amusing, was its tendency to turn &quot;Open Access&quot; into &quot;open ACCESS.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter&#8211;and I appreciate the link. In this case, the translation&#8217;s good enough to understand what he&#8217;s saying, although I think we lose much of the power and eloquence of the original.</p>
<p>But also in this case, the sheer charm of some of the less-than-wholly-satisfactory translations was such that I did the post. I hope it&#8217;s clear to the original author (if he sees this) that I&#8217;m not denigrating what appears to be an excellent rebuttal.</p>
<p>I wonder whether we&#8217;ll see truly satisfactory machine translation within my lifetime. (That&#8217;s &#8220;wonder,&#8221; not &#8220;don&#8217;t believe.&#8221;) There are two fundamental problems&#8211;one of which may be a bit less severe for scholarly resources:</p>
<p>1. Different languages have such different constructions that effective translation can be difficult. (In the example cited, at least one marvelous result is, I believe, a case where typical German sentence order results in a different effect in English.)</p>
<p>2. (&#8220;Why a roundtrip translation for Cites &#038; Insights or Walt at Random material might be particularly gruesome.&#8221;) Idiomatic language is, I suspect, much harder to translate effectively, as is colloquial language. I love good idiomatic American, and try to use it, but it can&#8217;t be easy to translate, and I&#8217;m sure the same is true for other languages. </p>
<p>The one tendency of Google&#8217;s translate that I found bemusing, rather than amusing, was its tendency to turn &#8220;Open Access&#8221; into &#8220;open ACCESS.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Suber</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/10/this-shears-manifest-themselves-in-uncounted-powerpoint-foils/comment-page-1/#comment-21932</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Suber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=395#comment-21932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Walt:  It&#039;s easy to link to a machine translation, which can make it hard to justify omitting the link, at least when you want to let your readers know about a work not in their language.  But, as you point out, the quality is often so low that this can be a close call.  

Serious progress in machine translation will be as revolutionary as serious progress in open access, and I look forward to both for similar reasons.  They remove different access barriers and together could create effective no-barrier access to whatever we may want to read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt:  It&#8217;s easy to link to a machine translation, which can make it hard to justify omitting the link, at least when you want to let your readers know about a work not in their language.  But, as you point out, the quality is often so low that this can be a close call.  </p>
<p>Serious progress in machine translation will be as revolutionary as serious progress in open access, and I look forward to both for similar reasons.  They remove different access barriers and together could create effective no-barrier access to whatever we may want to read.</p>
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