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	<title>Comments on: Taking the bait</title>
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	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4978</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4978</guid>
		<description>Laura, If I had the tools and time, I&#039;d love to figure out just how different Book Antiqua and Palatino actually are--or whether Book Antiqua is just a pure recutting with a different name (since typeface designs can&#039;t be copyrighted or patented--but typeface names can be trademarked). Excellent READ offshoot, by the way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura, If I had the tools and time, I&#8217;d love to figure out just how different Book Antiqua and Palatino actually are&#8211;or whether Book Antiqua is just a pure recutting with a different name (since typeface designs can&#8217;t be copyrighted or patented&#8211;but typeface names can be trademarked). Excellent READ offshoot, by the way!</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4968</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 01:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4968</guid>
		<description>Ah--I knew it was familiar from somewhere.  I used Book Antiqua for my undergraduate thesis.  I also went through a Palatino phase at some point, and later a Hoefler Text phase--I used that for my MFA thesis.  I&#039;m between fonts now, and I don&#039;t really know very much about them, but my father was a hobby printer, and I must have inherited some of the taste.  I certainly liked to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/newrambler/121096298&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;play with the stuff&lt;/a&gt; when I was small.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah&#8211;I knew it was familiar from somewhere.  I used Book Antiqua for my undergraduate thesis.  I also went through a Palatino phase at some point, and later a Hoefler Text phase&#8211;I used that for my MFA thesis.  I&#8217;m between fonts now, and I don&#8217;t really know very much about them, but my father was a hobby printer, and I must have inherited some of the taste.  I certainly liked to <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/newrambler/121096298" rel="nofollow">play with the stuff</a> when I was small.</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4883</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4883</guid>
		<description>Laura...first, I&#039;ll think about it.

Second, well, your comment isn&#039;t that long--and I haven&#039;t thought about the typeface for Walt at Random, in a long time, partly because I&#039;m one of those arrogant bastards who insists on using my own preferred typeface for all websites (I get so *@# sick of Arial/Helvetica...), using the Accessibility switch in IE and the Advanced controls on the font options in Firefox. (I see everything in Arrus BT; while I like Berkeley Book even better and use it for C&amp;I, it doesn&#039;t work as well in a browser.)

So...let me see, looking at the template and turning off my browser typeface overrides...

Ah, that makes sense: I use Book Antiqua as first choice, Palatino as second, &quot;serif&quot; as the fallback. Book Antiqua (a contemporary rendering of Palatino, but slightly better designed for body text) should be installed on every Windows PC; the Palatino fallback should take care of Mac users. I deliberately chose typefaces that are part of the standard distribution for the operating systems. Palatino&#039;s a little fancy for body type (the &quot;Y&quot; is the most flamboyant character), as it was actually designed as a heading type--but it&#039;s probably the nicest body type among those that are on most everyone&#039;s PC, and Book Antiqua is an excellent rendering.

As may be obvious, I still care about this stuff, albeit not as much as I used to. You&#039;re right: Book Antiqua does look nice on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura&#8230;first, I&#8217;ll think about it.</p>
<p>Second, well, your comment isn&#8217;t that long&#8211;and I haven&#8217;t thought about the typeface for Walt at Random, in a long time, partly because I&#8217;m one of those arrogant bastards who insists on using my own preferred typeface for all websites (I get so *@# sick of Arial/Helvetica&#8230;), using the Accessibility switch in IE and the Advanced controls on the font options in Firefox. (I see everything in Arrus BT; while I like Berkeley Book even better and use it for C&amp;I, it doesn&#8217;t work as well in a browser.)</p>
<p>So&#8230;let me see, looking at the template and turning off my browser typeface overrides&#8230;</p>
<p>Ah, that makes sense: I use Book Antiqua as first choice, Palatino as second, &#8220;serif&#8221; as the fallback. Book Antiqua (a contemporary rendering of Palatino, but slightly better designed for body text) should be installed on every Windows PC; the Palatino fallback should take care of Mac users. I deliberately chose typefaces that are part of the standard distribution for the operating systems. Palatino&#8217;s a little fancy for body type (the &#8220;Y&#8221; is the most flamboyant character), as it was actually designed as a heading type&#8211;but it&#8217;s probably the nicest body type among those that are on most everyone&#8217;s PC, and Book Antiqua is an excellent rendering.</p>
<p>As may be obvious, I still care about this stuff, albeit not as much as I used to. You&#8217;re right: Book Antiqua does look nice on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4880</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 00:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4880</guid>
		<description>On the subject of comment previews, there&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/LiveCommentPreview&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;nifty live comment preview plug-in&lt;/a&gt; that both Jessamyn W. (not, of course, to be confused with Jessamyn L.) and I use.  Of course, I just copied it from her--but if I can install a WordPress plug-in successfully, anyone can.  

I have a story about calling myself Laura 2.0 that I was going to go into earlier, but it&#039;s too complex and tragic for comment fodder.  If anyone&#039;s really curious, hit me up at a conference some day.  There are quite a few Michaels out here in biblioblogosphere land--and Michael Stephens is like a double whammy in name duplication.  Thank goodness for hyperlinks!

And while I&#039;m at it wiht this insanely long comment at the bottom of a long comment thread: Walt, have I ever mentioned that I love the font you use on this blog?  I don&#039;t know what it is, but it&#039;s pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of comment previews, there&#8217;s a <a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/LiveCommentPreview" rel="nofollow">nifty live comment preview plug-in</a> that both Jessamyn W. (not, of course, to be confused with Jessamyn L.) and I use.  Of course, I just copied it from her&#8211;but if I can install a WordPress plug-in successfully, anyone can.  </p>
<p>I have a story about calling myself Laura 2.0 that I was going to go into earlier, but it&#8217;s too complex and tragic for comment fodder.  If anyone&#8217;s really curious, hit me up at a conference some day.  There are quite a few Michaels out here in biblioblogosphere land&#8211;and Michael Stephens is like a double whammy in name duplication.  Thank goodness for hyperlinks!</p>
<p>And while I&#8217;m at it wiht this insanely long comment at the bottom of a long comment thread: Walt, have I ever mentioned that I love the font you use on this blog?  I don&#8217;t know what it is, but it&#8217;s pretty.</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4878</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4878</guid>
		<description>Steve L., I thought there might be a subtle joke, e.g., two too many...in any case, typos are the way of the world.

Steve O., I do know Steven C. personally, have disagreed with him vehemently at times, and like him a lot.

Work? WORK? (Sorry, a Bob Denver flashback.) (In any case, at my current 3/4 time status, I&#039;m done...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve L., I thought there might be a subtle joke, e.g., two too many&#8230;in any case, typos are the way of the world.</p>
<p>Steve O., I do know Steven C. personally, have disagreed with him vehemently at times, and like him a lot.</p>
<p>Work? WORK? (Sorry, a Bob Denver flashback.) (In any case, at my current 3/4 time status, I&#8217;m done&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Oberg</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4872</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Oberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4872</guid>
		<description>Steve (Lawson), no offense taken at all. And I have no idea why there are so many Steve(n)s/Stephens in the library blogosphere! But hey, Steve is a good name :-)

I also agree that Steven Cohen&#039;s post was very moving. I don&#039;t agree with everything he espouses and I don&#039;t know him personally at all, but his stock (which was high enough already) rose considerably with me.

Now like you, I&#039;d better get back to my own blog, er, real work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve (Lawson), no offense taken at all. And I have no idea why there are so many Steve(n)s/Stephens in the library blogosphere! But hey, Steve is a good name <img src='http://walt.lishost.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I also agree that Steven Cohen&#8217;s post was very moving. I don&#8217;t agree with everything he espouses and I don&#8217;t know him personally at all, but his stock (which was high enough already) rose considerably with me.</p>
<p>Now like you, I&#8217;d better get back to my own blog, er, real work.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4871</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4871</guid>
		<description>Sheesh, you don&#039;t have to correct it, but I do know the difference between &quot;two&quot; and &quot;too&quot; (as in &quot;too many Steves&quot;).

I have been posting here more often than on my own blog lately. OK if I give up See Also and just use this comment thread as my blog, Walt?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheesh, you don&#8217;t have to correct it, but I do know the difference between &#8220;two&#8221; and &#8220;too&#8221; (as in &#8220;too many Steves&#8221;).</p>
<p>I have been posting here more often than on my own blog lately. OK if I give up See Also and just use this comment thread as my blog, Walt?</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4859</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4859</guid>
		<description>Jessamyn L. (OK, you said it): You didn&#039;t even include Steven Bell. And I managed to get Mr. Cohen&#039;s first name as Stephen once (twice?) because I was coping with Michael S...

Preview button? Great idea, but don&#039;t hold your breath--so far, this blog isn&#039;t even upgraded to current WP standards. Maybe some day...

I will note that I&#039;m willing to fix trivial errors in comments if asked (and will do so as stealthily as possible), as long as it&#039;s a matter of spelling or grammar, not facts or opinion.

The unsent-comment post: OK, I can&#039;t find it either. It&#039;s possible that it&#039;s a mini-essay in &lt;i&gt;C&amp;I&lt;/i&gt; or that I didn&#039;t categorize it properly or that it&#039;s a comment on someone else&#039;s post. I know I said it, or something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessamyn L. (OK, you said it): You didn&#8217;t even include Steven Bell. And I managed to get Mr. Cohen&#8217;s first name as Stephen once (twice?) because I was coping with Michael S&#8230;</p>
<p>Preview button? Great idea, but don&#8217;t hold your breath&#8211;so far, this blog isn&#8217;t even upgraded to current WP standards. Maybe some day&#8230;</p>
<p>I will note that I&#8217;m willing to fix trivial errors in comments if asked (and will do so as stealthily as possible), as long as it&#8217;s a matter of spelling or grammar, not facts or opinion.</p>
<p>The unsent-comment post: OK, I can&#8217;t find it either. It&#8217;s possible that it&#8217;s a mini-essay in <i>C&amp;I</i> or that I didn&#8217;t categorize it properly or that it&#8217;s a comment on someone else&#8217;s post. I know I said it, or something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4844</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4844</guid>
		<description>@Steve Oberg: Sorry for being coy; I didn&#039;t want to put words in Sarah&#039;s mouth. I feel OK now in saying that the apoplectic one was Steven Cohen (which he, of course, recognized in his own comment above) and the person giving him apoplexy was Michael Stephens. 

I spell it out not just because I don&#039;t want you to think I was trying to be cute (and because I have taken people to task for just that kind of vagueness in the past), but because Steven has posted a very moving apology to Library Stuff: 

As for the rest of your comment, I&#039;m not sure what to say. I know that, through this whole Library 2.0 thing I have read Michael Stephens and Steven Cohen and Walt Crawford and Stephen Abram, etc. When it comes to commenting and discussing, though, I sometimes wonder if it is worth it if I&#039;m too far apart from the original poster. Walt has mentioned recently (though I can&#039;t find it now) starting to leave comments on blogs and then bailing out--I do that frequently when I disagree too sharply with someone. I start to question just how valuable the disucssion will be. Not all threads can be as nifty as the present one.

Two more off-topic comments: 
(1) there are two many Steves/Stevens/Stephens in the biblioblogosphere (and Michael *Stephens* isn&#039;t helping matters). I am chaning my name to Jessamyn.

(2) What does WordPress have against comment previews? Walt, I&#039;ll try and improve my print CSS if you put in a preview button for this little box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve Oberg: Sorry for being coy; I didn&#8217;t want to put words in Sarah&#8217;s mouth. I feel OK now in saying that the apoplectic one was Steven Cohen (which he, of course, recognized in his own comment above) and the person giving him apoplexy was Michael Stephens. </p>
<p>I spell it out not just because I don&#8217;t want you to think I was trying to be cute (and because I have taken people to task for just that kind of vagueness in the past), but because Steven has posted a very moving apology to Library Stuff: </p>
<p>As for the rest of your comment, I&#8217;m not sure what to say. I know that, through this whole Library 2.0 thing I have read Michael Stephens and Steven Cohen and Walt Crawford and Stephen Abram, etc. When it comes to commenting and discussing, though, I sometimes wonder if it is worth it if I&#8217;m too far apart from the original poster. Walt has mentioned recently (though I can&#8217;t find it now) starting to leave comments on blogs and then bailing out&#8211;I do that frequently when I disagree too sharply with someone. I start to question just how valuable the disucssion will be. Not all threads can be as nifty as the present one.</p>
<p>Two more off-topic comments:<br />
(1) there are two many Steves/Stevens/Stephens in the biblioblogosphere (and Michael *Stephens* isn&#8217;t helping matters). I am chaning my name to Jessamyn.</p>
<p>(2) What does WordPress have against comment previews? Walt, I&#8217;ll try and improve my print CSS if you put in a preview button for this little box.</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/taking-the-bait/comment-page-1/#comment-4829</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=272#comment-4829</guid>
		<description>Another excellent point, and the level of (generally polite) disagreement around here is another reason I&#039;m so delighted with these discussions. If I was getting even 80% posts saying, in essence, &quot;You&#039;re right, Walt&quot;--well, first I&#039;d tune my mental spam filters, then I&#039;d wonder what was going wrong, unless I was referring to Really Controversial Topics such as whether ALA should support the freedom to read.

Incidentally, I think you can ask around and you&#039;ll find that I do not delete comments because I disagree with the position taken. There are exceptions (hatred expressed in certain terms, use of certain terms), but other than spam, I pretty much let anything through. You want to call me an idiot or wrong, and don&#039;t actually use expletives or group stereotypes in doing so? The comment will stand. And may or may not be responded to, since I&#039;m frequently wrong and sometimes think I&#039;m a bit of an idiot.

(Well, I did delete one very brief comment yesterday, but that was because it was a request to make a tiny inconspicuous edit in another comment from the same person--which I did, before approving the first and deleting the second. Since we al maek mistkeas, it was an easy choice.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another excellent point, and the level of (generally polite) disagreement around here is another reason I&#8217;m so delighted with these discussions. If I was getting even 80% posts saying, in essence, &#8220;You&#8217;re right, Walt&#8221;&#8211;well, first I&#8217;d tune my mental spam filters, then I&#8217;d wonder what was going wrong, unless I was referring to Really Controversial Topics such as whether ALA should support the freedom to read.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I think you can ask around and you&#8217;ll find that I do not delete comments because I disagree with the position taken. There are exceptions (hatred expressed in certain terms, use of certain terms), but other than spam, I pretty much let anything through. You want to call me an idiot or wrong, and don&#8217;t actually use expletives or group stereotypes in doing so? The comment will stand. And may or may not be responded to, since I&#8217;m frequently wrong and sometimes think I&#8217;m a bit of an idiot.</p>
<p>(Well, I did delete one very brief comment yesterday, but that was because it was a request to make a tiny inconspicuous edit in another comment from the same person&#8211;which I did, before approving the first and deleting the second. Since we al maek mistkeas, it was an easy choice.)</p>
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