<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Messy facts and neat presentations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 16:58:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4812</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Geez, Mark, isn&#039;t that my line (&quot;thanks all for a great discussion!&quot;)

I may have to do more library-related posts. Even with some moderation delays, conversation on this cluster of posts is nothing short of remarkable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, Mark, isn&#8217;t that my line (&#8220;thanks all for a great discussion!&#8221;)</p>
<p>I may have to do more library-related posts. Even with some moderation delays, conversation on this cluster of posts is nothing short of remarkable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4810</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4810</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Walt for permission, and I most certainly will not say Gen2.0.

And, wow!  Some real discussion for once in the biblioblogosphere.  Of course, I&#039;ve always known that you were open to it.  Nonetheless, I don&#039;t see much of it.  More on that topic soon though.

And, Dorothea, yes I agree, there is some (small) amount of merit in paying attention to them.  But, as has been further elucidated here, the merit is in payng attention to your own patrons and your own employees.   

I do not base my objections simply on my own 2 kids.  I spent several years in the classroom pursuing an undergraduate degree with people the age of my children.  I worked the  front lines of a university librarie&#039;s circulation, reserve and ILL desk working with, and supervising, many people of these generations.  As Dave Tyckoson said, you simply cannot draw many generalizations if you spend some real live time with them.  And I&#039;m sorry, but that does not include from the other side of the reference desk as the &quot;professional.&quot;  Just had a conversation with my mentor today about her experience trying to connect with this generation as a reference librarian.  Wrong position to make much headway there, but that is a completely different, but highly related, discussion.

Wow, and to think I came here just now for a link....

Again, thanks all for a great discussion!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Walt for permission, and I most certainly will not say Gen2.0.</p>
<p>And, wow!  Some real discussion for once in the biblioblogosphere.  Of course, I&#8217;ve always known that you were open to it.  Nonetheless, I don&#8217;t see much of it.  More on that topic soon though.</p>
<p>And, Dorothea, yes I agree, there is some (small) amount of merit in paying attention to them.  But, as has been further elucidated here, the merit is in payng attention to your own patrons and your own employees.   </p>
<p>I do not base my objections simply on my own 2 kids.  I spent several years in the classroom pursuing an undergraduate degree with people the age of my children.  I worked the  front lines of a university librarie&#8217;s circulation, reserve and ILL desk working with, and supervising, many people of these generations.  As Dave Tyckoson said, you simply cannot draw many generalizations if you spend some real live time with them.  And I&#8217;m sorry, but that does not include from the other side of the reference desk as the &#8220;professional.&#8221;  Just had a conversation with my mentor today about her experience trying to connect with this generation as a reference librarian.  Wrong position to make much headway there, but that is a completely different, but highly related, discussion.</p>
<p>Wow, and to think I came here just now for a link&#8230;.</p>
<p>Again, thanks all for a great discussion!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4750</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jon, Great comment--I almost wish you would go on for pages. 

&quot;In fact, by playing to generational sterotypes you miss one of the rules of people management which is to pay attention to the actual people working for you.&quot;

Geez, what a concept: Dealing with the actual people instead of the nicely-slotted stereotypes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, Great comment&#8211;I almost wish you would go on for pages. </p>
<p>&#8220;In fact, by playing to generational sterotypes you miss one of the rules of people management which is to pay attention to the actual people working for you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Geez, what a concept: Dealing with the actual people instead of the nicely-slotted stereotypes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Gorman</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4749</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4749</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The various generation sterotypes annoy the heck out of me, perhaps in large part because they not only seem worthless but they also seem dangerous.  Of course, I&#039;m one of the younger generations (born in &#039;80) so I might be biased.   But I look at many of the people I know and I don&#039;t see much in the way of generational differences.  Certainly nothing like the management philosophies that are coming out.  In fact, by playing to generational sterotypes you miss one of the rules of people management which is to pay attention to the actual people working for you.   I better stop here, otherwise I could go on for pages on this topic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The various generation sterotypes annoy the heck out of me, perhaps in large part because they not only seem worthless but they also seem dangerous.  Of course, I&#8217;m one of the younger generations (born in &#8217;80) so I might be biased.   But I look at many of the people I know and I don&#8217;t see much in the way of generational differences.  Certainly nothing like the management philosophies that are coming out.  In fact, by playing to generational sterotypes you miss one of the rules of people management which is to pay attention to the actual people working for you.   I better stop here, otherwise I could go on for pages on this topic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4700</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well said. And, as you may know, I&#039;m an optimist in general. 

The other piece of &quot;better toys&quot; is the extent to which one decade&#039;s technological magic becomes the next decade&#039;s ordinary toolkit and/or background noise. But that issue breaks differently than defined &quot;generations.&quot;

I must admit that I&#039;m also bemused by the largest-by-definition &quot;Millennial&quot; generation--that somehow everyone born since 1980 is alike. Heck, if you define GenX as everyone born since 1960, then GenX is the largest generation ever. It&#039;s become an odd sort of shell game, or a way of assigning mass and therefore power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said. And, as you may know, I&#8217;m an optimist in general. </p>
<p>The other piece of &#8220;better toys&#8221; is the extent to which one decade&#8217;s technological magic becomes the next decade&#8217;s ordinary toolkit and/or background noise. But that issue breaks differently than defined &#8220;generations.&#8221;</p>
<p>I must admit that I&#8217;m also bemused by the largest-by-definition &#8220;Millennial&#8221; generation&#8211;that somehow everyone born since 1980 is alike. Heck, if you define GenX as everyone born since 1960, then GenX is the largest generation ever. It&#8217;s become an odd sort of shell game, or a way of assigning mass and therefore power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Tyckoson</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4699</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Tyckoson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Walt for pointing out a tendency to stereotype that is becoming increasingly annoying to me.  Too many experts are telling us how today&#039;s young people are so different from those of the past and how we need to change what we do to accommodate this new generation.  Studies of a few selected (and often we do not know how they were selected) young people are generalized to become these &quot;facts&quot;.

However, in my several hours per week that I work at the reference desk, I come into direct contact with this same generation of young people.  What I see from talking to hundreds (thousands?) of members of this generation each year is that there are no common facts about them.  There is a diversity of interest and goals among today&#039;s young population that cannot be generalized into a coherent group of game-playing, hip-hop-listening, instant-messaging, tattoed, attention-deficit-prone, cell-phone-talking, purple-haired slackers.  

What I find is that I have met the new generation -- and they are a lot like us.  There is one clear difference, though -- they have better toys than we did.  Of course, we had better toys than our parents, who had better toys than their grandparents.....

The generation that said &quot;don&#039;t trust anyone over 30&quot; is not only now more than twice that age, but has been running the nation for a decade or more.  Today&#039;s young people are the teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers, artists, journalists, business owners, social workers, and (God forbid) librarians of the future.  From where I sit, the future looks pretty good because the people who will be forming it have the goals, dreams, and motivation to make it happen -- just like each generation before them did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Walt for pointing out a tendency to stereotype that is becoming increasingly annoying to me.  Too many experts are telling us how today&#8217;s young people are so different from those of the past and how we need to change what we do to accommodate this new generation.  Studies of a few selected (and often we do not know how they were selected) young people are generalized to become these &#8220;facts&#8221;.</p>
<p>However, in my several hours per week that I work at the reference desk, I come into direct contact with this same generation of young people.  What I see from talking to hundreds (thousands?) of members of this generation each year is that there are no common facts about them.  There is a diversity of interest and goals among today&#8217;s young population that cannot be generalized into a coherent group of game-playing, hip-hop-listening, instant-messaging, tattoed, attention-deficit-prone, cell-phone-talking, purple-haired slackers.  </p>
<p>What I find is that I have met the new generation &#8212; and they are a lot like us.  There is one clear difference, though &#8212; they have better toys than we did.  Of course, we had better toys than our parents, who had better toys than their grandparents&#8230;..</p>
<p>The generation that said &#8220;don&#8217;t trust anyone over 30&#8243; is not only now more than twice that age, but has been running the nation for a decade or more.  Today&#8217;s young people are the teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers, artists, journalists, business owners, social workers, and (God forbid) librarians of the future.  From where I sit, the future looks pretty good because the people who will be forming it have the goals, dreams, and motivation to make it happen &#8212; just like each generation before them did.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dorothea</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4683</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Within the limits of their systems, particularly computer-based systems, yes. But this particular rant you&#039;ve heard from me before.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Within the limits of their systems, particularly computer-based systems, yes. But this particular rant you&#8217;ve heard from me before.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4661</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dorothea--I don&#039;t necessarily disagree. Of course, the growing number of healthy, alert, reasonably prosperous geezers (I&#039;m one, so I get to use the term) who expect to be around for another 2-3 decades also have challenges that public libraries could meet better: Don&#039;t we all?

What bothers me about gen-gen (hey Mark, feel free to use commercially as well, with or without attribution, as long as you don&#039;t say Gen2.0) is that it pretty much invites libraries to Go Out and Serve The New Patrons, Who Are Defined Thusly--without the nasty work of finding out what the local community actually wants and will respond to, and without worrying about side-effects that annoy existing loyal patrons. I&#039;ll be so evil as to suggest that GenWhatever in Mountain View, CA is unlikely to be overwhelmingly similar to GenWhatever in Yreka, CA, much less Kanab, UT.

I&#039;m not even entirely convinced that public librarians of my generation and the one that followed have all been expecting patrons to bend themselves around libraries and librarians. Yes, there are some new tools that allow for more flexibility--but a fair number of public libraries have been reaching out for some time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dorothea&#8211;I don&#8217;t necessarily disagree. Of course, the growing number of healthy, alert, reasonably prosperous geezers (I&#8217;m one, so I get to use the term) who expect to be around for another 2-3 decades also have challenges that public libraries could meet better: Don&#8217;t we all?</p>
<p>What bothers me about gen-gen (hey Mark, feel free to use commercially as well, with or without attribution, as long as you don&#8217;t say Gen2.0) is that it pretty much invites libraries to Go Out and Serve The New Patrons, Who Are Defined Thusly&#8211;without the nasty work of finding out what the local community actually wants and will respond to, and without worrying about side-effects that annoy existing loyal patrons. I&#8217;ll be so evil as to suggest that GenWhatever in Mountain View, CA is unlikely to be overwhelmingly similar to GenWhatever in Yreka, CA, much less Kanab, UT.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not even entirely convinced that public librarians of my generation and the one that followed have all been expecting patrons to bend themselves around libraries and librarians. Yes, there are some new tools that allow for more flexibility&#8211;but a fair number of public libraries have been reaching out for some time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dorothea</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4657</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am probably a bad person for saying this, but so be it... whether all the [generation in question] is a particular way or not, there&#039;s enough of a mass with those characteristics that it behooves libraries to wake up and be ready to serve them -- despite well-known librarian tendencies to expect patrons to bend themselves around libraries and librarians.

No, not every Millennial embodies every Millennial tendency. In the aggregate, however, they present challenges that repay attention.

Says the darn-near perfect embodiment of the Gen-Xer, anyway. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am probably a bad person for saying this, but so be it&#8230; whether all the [generation in question] is a particular way or not, there&#8217;s enough of a mass with those characteristics that it behooves libraries to wake up and be ready to serve them &#8212; despite well-known librarian tendencies to expect patrons to bend themselves around libraries and librarians.</p>
<p>No, not every Millennial embodies every Millennial tendency. In the aggregate, however, they present challenges that repay attention.</p>
<p>Says the darn-near perfect embodiment of the Gen-Xer, anyway. <img src='http://walt.lishost.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Simon Chamberlain</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2006/03/messy-facts-and-neat-presentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4640</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Chamberlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 05:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=271#comment-4640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark nailed the issue that had been bothering me - the fact that not only do these statements make absurd generalisations about huge groups of people, but those generalisations are self-contradictory.

Of course, there&#039;s no doubt lots of money to be made by becoming an expert on these different groups. Or maybe that&#039;s just me being cynical...and after all, I&#039;m Gen X and we&#039;re all totally cynical, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark nailed the issue that had been bothering me &#8211; the fact that not only do these statements make absurd generalisations about huge groups of people, but those generalisations are self-contradictory.</p>
<p>Of course, there&#8217;s no doubt lots of money to be made by becoming an expert on these different groups. Or maybe that&#8217;s just me being cynical&#8230;and after all, I&#8217;m Gen X and we&#8217;re all totally cynical, right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
