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	<title>Comments on: Speaking fees: This one really isn&#8217;t my fight</title>
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	<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/</link>
	<description>The library voice of the radical middle.</description>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2802</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jessamyn, Iâ€™m not saying the topic is an A-list issue in itself - it might be clearer if I explain again that I had in mind a context of the recent discussions in the C &amp; I articles on &quot;Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging&quot; and &quot;Mea Culpa: Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging&quot;. Iâ€™m saying which voices get heard on the subject, and how much, is a neat example going on right now in front of us, of the themes just explored in those articles.

The later part, against donâ€™t-worry-be-happy, was merely a pre-emptive reply to, ahem, one particular thread-path the above observations tend to create (i.e., trying to cut it short so it doesnâ€™t unfold into very well-worn channels, given that thereâ€™s also some context there â€¦)

[Walt, free free to delete this comment when the version with links is approved out of the moderation queue  - the links to your own site were sending it to limbo :-(]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessamyn, Iâ€™m not saying the topic is an A-list issue in itself &#8211; it might be clearer if I explain again that I had in mind a context of the recent discussions in the C &amp; I articles on &#8220;Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging&#8221; and &#8220;Mea Culpa: Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging&#8221;. Iâ€™m saying which voices get heard on the subject, and how much, is a neat example going on right now in front of us, of the themes just explored in those articles.</p>
<p>The later part, against donâ€™t-worry-be-happy, was merely a pre-emptive reply to, ahem, one particular thread-path the above observations tend to create (i.e., trying to cut it short so it doesnâ€™t unfold into very well-worn channels, given that thereâ€™s also some context there â€¦)</p>
<p>[Walt, free free to delete this comment when the version with links is approved out of the moderation queue  - the links to your own site were sending it to limbo <img src='http://walt.lishost.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> ]</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2792</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jessamyn, I&#039;m not saying the topic is an A-list issue in itself - it might be clearer if I explain again that I had in mind a context of the recent discussions in the &lt;em&gt;C &amp; I&lt;/em&gt; articles on &lt;a href=&quot;http://cites.boisestate.edu/v5i12b.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://cites.boisestate.edu/v5i14b.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mea Culpa: Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging&lt;/a&gt;. I&#039;m saying which voices get heard on the subject, and how much, is a neat example going on right now in front of us, of the themes just explored in those articles.

The later part, against don&#039;t-worry-be-happy, was merely a pre-emptive reply to, ahem, one particular thread-path the above observations tend to create (i.e., trying to cut it short so it doesn&#039;t unfold into very well-worn channels, given that there&#039;s also some context there ...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessamyn, I&#8217;m not saying the topic is an A-list issue in itself &#8211; it might be clearer if I explain again that I had in mind a context of the recent discussions in the <em>C &amp; I</em> articles on <a href="http://cites.boisestate.edu/v5i12b.htm" rel="nofollow">Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging</a> and <a href="http://cites.boisestate.edu/v5i14b.htm" rel="nofollow">Mea Culpa: Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging</a>. I&#8217;m saying which voices get heard on the subject, and how much, is a neat example going on right now in front of us, of the themes just explored in those articles.</p>
<p>The later part, against don&#8217;t-worry-be-happy, was merely a pre-emptive reply to, ahem, one particular thread-path the above observations tend to create (i.e., trying to cut it short so it doesn&#8217;t unfold into very well-worn channels, given that there&#8217;s also some context there &#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: jessamyn</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2791</link>
		<dc:creator>jessamyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seth, why in your opinion is this an A-list issue? The fact that Jenny is notable in the blogging community is really just an outcropping of the fact that she&#039;s notable in the library community generally. Karen was trying to drive that point home to a bunch of ALA Councilors who have a hard time getting their heads around the idea of bloggers having any sort of notability outside of the bloggish echo chamber. If you want to feel justified in being unhappy that your blog isn&#039;t more popular or that the A-list power laws are keeping you somehow from getting the attention and/or respect that you rightly deserve, I don&#039;t think anyone&#039;s quibbling with you. However, I&#039;m just sort of wondering what that has to do with what Walt is talking about?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth, why in your opinion is this an A-list issue? The fact that Jenny is notable in the blogging community is really just an outcropping of the fact that she&#8217;s notable in the library community generally. Karen was trying to drive that point home to a bunch of ALA Councilors who have a hard time getting their heads around the idea of bloggers having any sort of notability outside of the bloggish echo chamber. If you want to feel justified in being unhappy that your blog isn&#8217;t more popular or that the A-list power laws are keeping you somehow from getting the attention and/or respect that you rightly deserve, I don&#8217;t think anyone&#8217;s quibbling with you. However, I&#8217;m just sort of wondering what that has to do with what Walt is talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2777</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seth: All good points, maybe a little tangential to this discussion (but I&#039;m not deleting the comment)!.

Jill: In the &lt;a href=&quot;http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ2i9.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;July 2002 &lt;i&gt;Cites &amp; Insights&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; I commented on Janet Swan Hill&#039;s &lt;i&gt;American Libraries&lt;/i&gt; article, quite favorably. It continues to be the best set of guidelines for care &amp; handling of an invited conference speaker that I&#039;ve seen. (Now, how an ALCTS president and widely-published author gets to call herself a &quot;lesser light&quot; among librarians is another question...)

Authority control: I had the devil&#039;s own time tracking down my commentary, and for that matter the article itself, because her name appeared as &quot;Janet Swan Hill&quot; in the article, no hyphen--thus in the H&#039;s, not the S&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth: All good points, maybe a little tangential to this discussion (but I&#8217;m not deleting the comment)!.</p>
<p>Jill: In the <a href="http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ2i9.pdf" rel="nofollow">July 2002 <i>Cites &amp; Insights</i></a> I commented on Janet Swan Hill&#8217;s <i>American Libraries</i> article, quite favorably. It continues to be the best set of guidelines for care &amp; handling of an invited conference speaker that I&#8217;ve seen. (Now, how an ALCTS president and widely-published author gets to call herself a &#8220;lesser light&#8221; among librarians is another question&#8230;)</p>
<p>Authority control: I had the devil&#8217;s own time tracking down my commentary, and for that matter the article itself, because her name appeared as &#8220;Janet Swan Hill&#8221; in the article, no hyphen&#8211;thus in the H&#8217;s, not the S&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2774</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Karen, I was aware of the potential for irony, but I thought commenting on thatmight be taken as a &quot;dig&quot;, and didn&#039;t want to go there.

My point, in the context of previous &lt;em&gt;Cites &amp; Insights&lt;/em&gt;  discussions, was to note a real-time example for Walt, where the library world does have &quot;its influential leaders, who can often (not always, but often) make an issue prominent or marginalize it.&quot; We can see it right now, that Jenny Levine&#039;s prominence, and how she writes on the issues, has an enormous effect on how the issue is perceived (quote: &quot;This only underscores the disconnect between the conversation happening out there and the conversation happening in here&quot;).

That you are happy yourself doesn&#039;t contradict this point in any way. Nor, more importantly, should it be taken as a rebuff that &lt;em&gt;I&lt;/em&gt; should be happy myself.

If we&#039;re going to go down this path, note I&#039;ve gone through the argument an exhausting number of times. It runs like this:

[Please excuse a little exaggeration for effect. I&#039;m trying to avoid strawmen, but also to clearly outline certain parts of the argument with bitter humor.]

Resolved: Blogging (in terms of influences) is hierarchical and full of cronyism, where on a given topic, a very few &quot;gatekeepers&quot; wield enormous power over who is widely heard. If you&#039;re not part of the club, you might as well talk to the wall for all you&#039;ll be heard overall.

Critic: I&#039;m happy writing my diary, or chatting with my friends, or with whatever audience I have. I am content with my station in life. Aren&#039;t you?

Me: That&#039;s nice. No. I&#039;m not happy writing a diary, or chatting. I&#039;m doing this to have an impact, and it&#039;s not working.

Critic: You&#039;re saying diary/chat is bad! And since I enjoy diary/chat, you&#039;re saying I&#039;m a bad person!

Me: No. I think diary/chat is fine, if that&#039;s what you want. But it&#039;s not what &lt;em&gt;I&lt;/em&gt; want.

Critic: Then you&#039;re a bad person! And it&#039;s not working because you&#039;re thinking bad thoughts. You should never, ever, talk about how blogging isn&#039;t the bestest most emergent revolutionary New Era Media. You deserve your lowly status, because you aren&#039;t worthy, as shown by your disbelief in Blog Our Saviour.

Me: That sounds like a classic catch-22, that nobody poor can ever write about inequality of wealth, or that psychic powers don&#039;t work because of bad faith.

[I could go on, but I already got carried away]

Again, if you&#039;re happy with your status, great. But, in general, I think it&#039;s a reasonable feeling for others to be unhappy with their statuses. And more importantly, I believe the large structural factors of exponential distribution of influence in discussion, deserve far more recognition and incorporation into people&#039;s understanding of the bogosphere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, I was aware of the potential for irony, but I thought commenting on thatmight be taken as a &#8220;dig&#8221;, and didn&#8217;t want to go there.</p>
<p>My point, in the context of previous <em>Cites &amp; Insights</em>  discussions, was to note a real-time example for Walt, where the library world does have &#8220;its influential leaders, who can often (not always, but often) make an issue prominent or marginalize it.&#8221; We can see it right now, that Jenny Levine&#8217;s prominence, and how she writes on the issues, has an enormous effect on how the issue is perceived (quote: &#8220;This only underscores the disconnect between the conversation happening out there and the conversation happening in here&#8221;).</p>
<p>That you are happy yourself doesn&#8217;t contradict this point in any way. Nor, more importantly, should it be taken as a rebuff that <em>I</em> should be happy myself.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to go down this path, note I&#8217;ve gone through the argument an exhausting number of times. It runs like this:</p>
<p>[Please excuse a little exaggeration for effect. I'm trying to avoid strawmen, but also to clearly outline certain parts of the argument with bitter humor.]</p>
<p>Resolved: Blogging (in terms of influences) is hierarchical and full of cronyism, where on a given topic, a very few &#8220;gatekeepers&#8221; wield enormous power over who is widely heard. If you&#8217;re not part of the club, you might as well talk to the wall for all you&#8217;ll be heard overall.</p>
<p>Critic: I&#8217;m happy writing my diary, or chatting with my friends, or with whatever audience I have. I am content with my station in life. Aren&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>Me: That&#8217;s nice. No. I&#8217;m not happy writing a diary, or chatting. I&#8217;m doing this to have an impact, and it&#8217;s not working.</p>
<p>Critic: You&#8217;re saying diary/chat is bad! And since I enjoy diary/chat, you&#8217;re saying I&#8217;m a bad person!</p>
<p>Me: No. I think diary/chat is fine, if that&#8217;s what you want. But it&#8217;s not what <em>I</em> want.</p>
<p>Critic: Then you&#8217;re a bad person! And it&#8217;s not working because you&#8217;re thinking bad thoughts. You should never, ever, talk about how blogging isn&#8217;t the bestest most emergent revolutionary New Era Media. You deserve your lowly status, because you aren&#8217;t worthy, as shown by your disbelief in Blog Our Saviour.</p>
<p>Me: That sounds like a classic catch-22, that nobody poor can ever write about inequality of wealth, or that psychic powers don&#8217;t work because of bad faith.</p>
<p>[I could go on, but I already got carried away]</p>
<p>Again, if you&#8217;re happy with your status, great. But, in general, I think it&#8217;s a reasonable feeling for others to be unhappy with their statuses. And more importantly, I believe the large structural factors of exponential distribution of influence in discussion, deserve far more recognition and incorporation into people&#8217;s understanding of the bogosphere.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill Hurst-Wahl</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2764</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill Hurst-Wahl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In that long ALA thread, Janet Swan Hill wrote:

&quot;In any case, you have to remember that a speaker is doing you and the organization a favor, whether s/he belongs to the host organization or not.   So if there are some things within your power to do to make the speaker feel valued and appreciated, or to uncomplicate her/his life, then do it. &quot;

I truly like this sentiment.  I have spoken at conferences and meeting in the information industry and for other groups, and have been amazed at how this topic is handled.    I wish that more organizations realized that the speakers -- invited/asked speakers -- are doing them a favor, and sometimes the speaker shells out a lot of money to do that favor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that long ALA thread, Janet Swan Hill wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;In any case, you have to remember that a speaker is doing you and the organization a favor, whether s/he belongs to the host organization or not.   So if there are some things within your power to do to make the speaker feel valued and appreciated, or to uncomplicate her/his life, then do it. &#8221;</p>
<p>I truly like this sentiment.  I have spoken at conferences and meeting in the information industry and for other groups, and have been amazed at how this topic is handled.    I wish that more organizations realized that the speakers &#8212; invited/asked speakers &#8212; are doing them a favor, and sometimes the speaker shells out a lot of money to do that favor.</p>
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		<title>By: K.G. Schneider</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2762</link>
		<dc:creator>K.G. Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, but Seth, I was the one who made the so-called a-list comment and yet I&#039;m happy with my c-list status, if that&#039;s what it is. No one else at the conference seemed to care that I wasn&#039;t Jenny Levine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but Seth, I was the one who made the so-called a-list comment and yet I&#8217;m happy with my c-list status, if that&#8217;s what it is. No one else at the conference seemed to care that I wasn&#8217;t Jenny Levine.</p>
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		<title>By: walt</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2754</link>
		<dc:creator>walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is indeed quite a thread. My only comment (I&#039;m still trying to stay out of this!) is that I&#039;ve spoken, twice, at one of the state associations referred to within the thread--and received full expenses and an honorarium in both cases. 

Of course, it&#039;s not &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; state association (which I don&#039;t belong to, where I have spoken, and where I did get a token payment to cover direct expenses as well as one-day registration).

Sigh. I just renewed ALA and LITA membership online. Nothing to do with this post, but I thought long and hard about LITA...and, frankly, if ALA does increase its dues substantially, I&#039;ll have to think even longer and harder. But that&#039;s a different set of issues, one I raise once in a while at LITA-L.

&lt;b&gt;One little addition:&lt;/b&gt; Reading the council thread, I now have one clue as to why I&#039;m not part of Information Today Inc&#039;s traveling circus, er, series of conferences, even though I write two columns for their publications. I always figured it was because I didn&#039;t have anything to say that they wanted to hear--but I now see that it may be partly for other pecuniary reasons. Good enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is indeed quite a thread. My only comment (I&#8217;m still trying to stay out of this!) is that I&#8217;ve spoken, twice, at one of the state associations referred to within the thread&#8211;and received full expenses and an honorarium in both cases. </p>
<p>Of course, it&#8217;s not <i>my</i> state association (which I don&#8217;t belong to, where I have spoken, and where I did get a token payment to cover direct expenses as well as one-day registration).</p>
<p>Sigh. I just renewed ALA and LITA membership online. Nothing to do with this post, but I thought long and hard about LITA&#8230;and, frankly, if ALA does increase its dues substantially, I&#8217;ll have to think even longer and harder. But that&#8217;s a different set of issues, one I raise once in a while at LITA-L.</p>
<p><b>One little addition:</b> Reading the council thread, I now have one clue as to why I&#8217;m not part of Information Today Inc&#8217;s traveling circus, er, series of conferences, even though I write two columns for their publications. I always figured it was because I didn&#8217;t have anything to say that they wanted to hear&#8211;but I now see that it may be partly for other pecuniary reasons. Good enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2741</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a note,  connecting to our recent discussions - observe the power of A-list&#039;ery:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;Sure, this may be a flash in the
biblioblogosphere, but Jenny&#039;s blog is one of the most widely-read blogs,
not just in our profession, but Web-wide. (A famous journalist was
introduced to me earlier this year and--being a man of no internal
filter--he said, &quot;It&#039;s nice to meet you, but I&#039;d really rather meet Jenny
Levine!&quot;) This only underscores the disconnect between the conversation
happening out there and the conversation happening in here...&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
(excerpt from one posting)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note,  connecting to our recent discussions &#8211; observe the power of A-list&#8217;ery:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;Sure, this may be a flash in the<br />
biblioblogosphere, but Jenny&#8217;s blog is one of the most widely-read blogs,<br />
not just in our profession, but Web-wide. (A famous journalist was<br />
introduced to me earlier this year and&#8211;being a man of no internal<br />
filter&#8211;he said, &#8220;It&#8217;s nice to meet you, but I&#8217;d really rather meet Jenny<br />
Levine!&#8221;) This only underscores the disconnect between the conversation<br />
happening out there and the conversation happening in here&#8230;&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>(excerpt from one posting)</p>
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		<title>By: rochelle</title>
		<link>http://walt.lishost.org/2005/12/speaking-fees-this-one-really-isnt-my-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-2739</link>
		<dc:creator>rochelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 02:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://walt.lishost.org/?p=197#comment-2739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s quite a thread! http://lp-web.ala.org:8000/guest/archives/ALACOUN/log0512/msg00158.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s quite a thread! <a href="http://lp-web.ala.org:8000/guest/archives/ALACOUN/log0512/msg00158.html" rel="nofollow">http://lp-web.ala.org:8000/guest/archives/ALACOUN/log0512/msg00158.html</a></p>
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